Did you note, that the number 144000 from the Revelation occurs also in the Maya and Hindu calendars? The Maya, before killed by Bishop Diego De Landa, called the number of 144000 days a "Baktun" and the Hindu call it a dusk or dawn. Isn't it obvious, that John relates to the calendar there? What do you think? What do you think why DeLanda has killed the Maya? Because the Church has seen the Maya can clue to an actual meaning of revelations?


> Weren't the Mayas killed in the same way that many native populations were massacred in the ignorance of the new world colonists? Doesn't any number occur in nature somewhere?


The "new world colonist" (singular) who killed the maya was a Bishop. A Bishop who did that in ordinary of the Church (and for his own sake). He did not goal to dwell on their land. He just killed them and further more, BURNED their scriptures in fire. Burned them beacuse they contained clues. Thats a kind of happening that really scares me off the church. I rather tend to see the obvious truth in the Bible, that is that there are significant numbers mentioned, numbers that are artifical measures of natural circumstances and thus do not appear in nature just by incident or unconscious inspiration, but only by observation they can be counted. I.e. by the observation of time viz planets, as calendars are the place where found them, the Maya and Hindu calendars. Yes, it must be, John wanted to tell something, that in it's depth relates to a calendar. But who the hell has ofuscated (or concealed?) it! I asked my local Bible Study Circle yesterday but - while they were impressed of the facts - no knowledge was in hand. This is the web. Maybe somebody can answer me. This is for sure the correct forum. No other and far not the non-religious take me serious. "Go away with your holy [censored]" they write..


By "Church" I mean insitutions and those with the expensive and impressive buildings and the money. Other groups or ideas or persons I do not call a Church. For me religion is not a personal term. The personal term is sprituality. Religion is politics trieing to usurp personal spirituality.


144000 are ~ a solar year multiplied by the synodic period (visibility cycle) of Jupiter (~ 400 days). Possibly also other cycles are contained so that the 144000 is a common component or junction point of many cycles. A handy measure at all.


I believe the Torah comes from Atlantis or from a group of people who may be known as the Time Masters. The flood that is common to all civilisations must have been the melting of the pole ices about 10000 years ago. This is also the time of Leo, regarding the big Sphinx as a monument that may have been built because people were joyfull about the raising temperatures as if their prayes were heard. However the Sphinx is a matriarchaic symbol or at least has been one frist. Before someone who called himself Cephren recarved the woman-head into his own and male face. "To sphinx" means to tie something tight together. I just think this could be a woman and a Lion. Maybe I've seen such somewhere else also. It means, the age of Leo is over, the Woman, the sign Virgo, that is next to Leo in the sequence of the sun (son, Jesus) has mastered the Lion and the age advances to cancer. Well, this may have been what the people resoned who have built the Sphinx as a sign of victory.


Platon wrote his Atlantis in 360 BC. This number is significant. Divide 144000 by the 400 and get 360. I will tell more about it later on, but first describe the following.


The connection I am thinking of is, that there have been and are the Time Masters, who have mastered time (by the calendar) and also death (by understanding). They are the intellectual crew behind the Maya, the Hindu and the Torah or similar book-religions. Just like the Moses child has been hidden within the bossom of the foe, the Time Masters placed their "Hall of Records" viz the Torah and other ciphered books in the culture as the most holy scriptures. Similarly like God hides nowhere else than in Man, where nobody dares to look, the Time Masters hid their knowledge in the sanctuary of the most abusive religions. The Time Masters gave them the books as toys. You give allways your toys to someone who is your friend you know. And world is playing megalomania with them, not seeing that they are actually the nest from where the real superpower really emerges. The real superpower of superior knowledge to those who really understand! Rarely you find the word "Belief" (in religious manner) in the Torah. Often you find the word "Knowledge" and it's forms. It's really there, that knowledge, I'm sure. If one has the eye of the Maya, he can count the days, count the stars as Abram was asked in Genesis 15.5.


Concerning the biblical 144000, even a term such as "people that die or remain living" can mean days that passed or have not passed. It's the question whether you are at the start of a time-cycle or at it's end. If you are at the start, the cycle just has to be counted on. If you are at the end, usually an intercalation has to be made, this means, add some days or omit some days, to get the artificial cycle aligned with the planets again. Such an intercalation has a tradition to be thought to be evil or "Armageddon" in some kind. Armageddon, because the usually familiar "rules of cosmos" (the calendar) are set off from effect for some time. A time without guides. The Maya for example called the remaining five days in their 360-day year a Wuayeb, a void or abyss. Also the Bible has a 360-days so called "prophetic" year. The Revelation reads, that "at the end of time" a great dragon will be free for some time. By "end of time" the end of a calendric cycle is meant and this dragon is the astronomical sign of Draco, the dragon, that is always at the north pole of the heaven. Around the north pole of heaven do our main time-cycles rotate. The day, the year and - what only a few know - the cycle of precession of the equinoxes. Latter means, because the earth axis is tilted, the spring sign of the star signs will be another every ~ 2150 years. After ~ 25780 years (often mentioned as 26000 years) one round fulfills. The 144000 days multiplied by 13 (a Maya factor) are ~ 5200 years and hence a fifth of that cycle. People yell that in 2012 our world will come to an end. But this is crap and not better than taking the Revelation literally. The truth is, that whenever a calendar of some sort comes to an end, it has to be righteously restarted or made anew by specialists. But specialists always have been few and people were afraid to loose their alignment with the seasons and hence their food income from the fields and such. Loosing food means death panic and grave danger. This natural fear has been utilized by the Church. The truth is indeed VERY simple and once you have grasped it, you will see our entire world VERY clearly. Especially it's lack of education. A lack that is maintained by the establishment through the Church so that people are still afraid of the heaven falling unto them. The Church knows this, the establishment knows this and the Diego-De-Landa-guys viz Dragon-slayers who sing to us "there is no dragon but the Lord" are still doing their kind of work today, doing a great job to keep the people dumb and dependent from Church and State as the 'greatest tits of universe' (expression coined after how certain buildings look like). In fact there IS a dragon and that dragon is in our hearts and in our heavens and in our center.


I know the 13 here only to be a factor of the Maya Tsolkin-Haab Calendar. Perhaps 13 Baktun should be a multiple of the Tsolkin-Haab and the Baktun to get them aligned. A 13 elsewhere can and may have annother meaning. It's a small number that occurs often. Not so the 144000.


To divide the 144000 by twelfe after all may have a symbolic reason. It may be unique to the Revelation of John, that has many contents that are taken off from their actual function and re-utilised as metaphors. The spirit of the tribe still remembers the Wuayeb-panic of missing food. A good point for the Church to hook into.